Scotland's Justice Minister
Speaks Exclusively to The Celtic Connection
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PHOTO: Adam Elder,
Scottish Parliament Photographer
HARRY MCGRATH in conversation with Kenny MacAskill, Justice Minister, Scottish Government.
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EDINBURGH - I first met Kenny MacAskill two years ago when we sat together in the Sylvia Hotel in English Bay and talked about the Scots in Western Canada, the St. Andrew's Society of Vancouver and the Centre for Scottish Studies at Simon Fraser University. That conversation subsequently became the basis of chapter three in Kenny's book Wherever the Saltire Flies. HM.
I want to take you back first to May 3 last year and the Scottish Parliament election.
A lot has been written about the Scottish National Party's remarkable victory but little about individual triumphs. You won the constituency of Edinburgh East and Musselburgh on more than a 13 percent swing from Labour. How did it feel in personal terms to get such a rousing endorsement from the voters?
It was a matter of pride and some piquancy. As a matter of fact I now represent the constituency in which I was born. Years ago Edinburgh was regarded as a no go area for the SNP.
I think the election showed how far we have travelled and how we are now Scotland's national party. We were once perceived as being the party of the rural north east of Scotland and now we cover every city.
Not only do I have a seat in Edinburgh and Nicola Sturgeon in Glasgow, but Dundee is entirely SNP, Aberdeen is solid SNP in many parts and Inverness and Stirling are also SNP. So I was immensely proud that we had broken through and we have now no areas that are precluded to the SNP and, in fact, it is other parties who are marginalised into geographical areas.
You were rewarded with the Justice portfolio which many people, including myself, think is one of the hardest jobs in the country. Scottish news rarely makes the papers in Canada, but I remember a few years ago a feature report on a UN survey which found that Scotland was the most violent country in the Western world. Some people questioned the reports methodology but it did some damage to Scotland's reputation. What initiatives have you taken since coming to office to address the problems highlighted by the UN, primarily knife culture and gangs?
I think we have to keep matters in perspective. We do have a problem with some serious crime in Scotland but overwhelmingly Scotland is a great place, not only to visit but a great place to stay. Most of Scotland is actually very safe.
The problem is that we have some hot spots, if I can put it that way, certainly in some areas of Glasgow and the West of Scotland where there is a knife problem. The underlying problem though is the 3Ds that scar Scotland. Drink, drugs and deprivation.
There are areas where poverty has been endemic, where people are marginalised and socially alienated, where we have drugs which are a phenomenon in every western society but underpinning that and poisoning it all is the deep rooted drink culture that we have in Scotland.
So to tackle matters we are clearly attempting to enforce the law, but also recognize that we have to promote good behaviour as well as punish bad. But frankly to make Scotland safer what we also have to do is to address Scotland's unhealthy attitude to alcohol. We are seeking to change that. This will deal with a lot of serious crime. It will certainly deal with a lot of low level anti social behaviour and we will be a lot better as a country.
When you were in Vancouver a couple of years ago, we talked about how there is no alcohol sold in supermarkets in Vancouver but in Scotland there sometimes seems to be more alcohol than food. I believe you are now working on changes in this area.
Absolutely. Alcohol is not another commodity and it cannot be treated as another commodity. It is not a bar of chocolate or a tin of beans and it shouldn't be promoted as something benign.
It is there is to be enjoyed. I do consume it and I am not abstemious and I have my moments, as people well know, yourself included. But we have to get the balance right and in Scotland alcohol has been far too affordable, far too accessible and it has been irresponsibly promoted and we have to change that.
And we are dealing not only with how we enforce it in the on-sale market of pubs and clubs but the availability and affordability of the off sales because there is something seriously perverse when you can get a bottle of high alcohol, cheap, cider for less than the cost of a bottle of water in a country deluged all too often by rain.
You asked me once what I had noticed on coming back to Scotland after a long time in Canada and I said that the streets here were swarming with traffic wardens but you rarely saw a policeman. I notice now that is beginning to change and assume that that is to do with you.
We in the government are committed to a visible police presence which reassures the citizens and deters criminals. We want our police to be out and visible and we are recruiting new officers.
Equally though we are trying to retain experienced officers who tend to retire and go off and do other jobs when they still have a great deal to contribute to their communities. And equally we have to redeploy.
There are far too many officers doing bureaucratic paper work and not out pounding the beat making Scotland safer. So we are keen for a visible police presence. Not simply to punish those who perpetrate crimes but to prevent crimes from happening in the first place.
We want to retain the culture of policing by consent where our officers of, from and for their communities and, indeed, that they are not people who are unapproachable. You should be able to go to a police officer not simply to report a crime but to simply ask directions or the time.
You were closely involved in the aftermath of the terrorist attack on Glasgow Airport. What initiatives have been put in place to avoid any recurrence?
Well obviously it was a wake up call for Scotland. Like many in Scotland I kind of thought that these matters were things that happened elsewhere. We are first of all delighted that our emergency services rose to the occasion and reacted in a manner which was exemplary and indeed all of Scotland rallied round and showed that we are a wee nation with a big heart.
Equally though we have to make sure that we work with other bodies south of the border and elsewhere to deal with global terrorism. It is a worldwide phenomenon.
Some of the solutions are defensive to make us safe and stronger. Some are diplomatic and we have to change matters there.
Equally though, one thing has been done vigorously by the Scottish Government post June 2007. We are aware that Scotland has had a problem with sectarianism. It is a problem that is getting better. We are not prepared to countenance supplanting sectarianism with racism.
I am delighted at the vigour with which the Scottish emergency services dealt with the situation, I am delighted about how Scotland rallied round and we are simply making sure that any small minority who seek to undermine the cohesion are dealt with thoroughly. We are all Jock Tamson's bairns whether we have been here since the Battle of Bannockburn or whether we have come from Ireland, Italy or the Indian sub-continent.
Before you became Justice Minister you took a close interest in the Scots abroad and wrote two books on the subject. I think we are on a panel together in April to discuss the Scottish diaspora which suggests to me that the interest continues. While it is not your bailiwick, what would you like to see happen under the new Scottish Government as far as connecting to the diaspora is concerned?
I think we are getting there. It's not my bailiwick but obviously that of the First Minister and the Minister for External Affairs. But we want Scotland to be represented. As a government we now go regularly to international meetings where we have a locus.
We seek to be represented which is perhaps a change from the past administration. Equally though we want not just to reach out to other countries and interact, but we also want to reach out to our people scattered to the winds.
And I think what you will find in the months and years to come, not simply with the year of Homecoming but with a whole variety of other matters, we want to show our ex-pat communities the respect they are entitled to. We recognize that there is actually something amazing that people still wish to be identified with a small nation of five million on the very periphery of North West Europe.
There is obviously a poignancy about those that have gone and left here but it is actually quite outstanding that so many people around the world share an affinity and affection for a country that, in many instances, doesn't give a great deal to them.
Harry McGrath is the Coordinator of the Centre for Scottish Studies at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver. He is currently residing in Scotland and can be reached by e-mail at: harrym@sfu.ca.
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